Curse

Loviatar · Aug 08, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

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Originally Posted by Count Feanor

And that's very sad.

That boggles my mind even more! What a waste of time! AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

seriously

since grinding levels is simply an indicator of time spent the following could be put in the game

emote of a clock which has a glowing green age over your character showing hours played

you can toggle it off or on to impress the people who will be impressed by time grinded

Dien · Aug 08, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Go and play wow if you feel like killing rats.
Guild wars is a pvp game and nothing can change that fact.

Count Feanor · Aug 08, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

seriously

since grinding levels is simply an indicator of time spent the following could be put in the game

emote of a clock which has a glowing green age over your character showing hours played

you can toggle it off or on to impress the people who will be impressed by time grinded

That sounds like a much better solution. Would the OP agree?

kaya · Aug 08, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

doods now your making fun of people who like to show accomplishments in game. be careful... you might be called out as a Hypocrite for your love of titles, which is there as a way to show accomplishments.

Nevin · Aug 08, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Makes me wonder, why didn't they just make the level cap at 60. I'll explain what I mean by a ratio.

Every 1-20 = 3-60, So basically every 3 levels you'd get Health/Energy + Attribute Points and what not. With the 3-60 ratio, each level would still take just as long as a level from 1-20. But this is primarly for grinders who enjoy difficulty in their leveling.

SpeedyKQ · Aug 08, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

So the OP wants your titles to be rolled up into your level number, but a higher level doesn't actually do anything.

First problem - counter intuitive. In every other RPG on earth, higher level means higher power. And for monsters, higher level would still mean higher power, making it more confusing.

Second problem - unskilled players can buy themselves preferential acceptance into PUGS by being hapless drunkards.

Makkert · Aug 08, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

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Originally Posted by Kalki

I can't believe I couldn't find a single thread in these forums regarding the raising of the the level cap. I checked through the index of ideas thread (found here), and did a few searches too. Maybe a mod could add this thread to that list.

It's astonishing you couldn't find another thread on this subject, since this subject has seen more reincarnations then Bush goofs up in speeches.

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I never thought I'd say it, but this game needs it's level cap raised.

No, it does not.

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I'm not a power gamer and many times I think power gamers are a little weird. I don't have the urge to "pwn nubs" with one hit kills on my level 99999 character. I like being on a level playing field with everyone else.

we agree here.

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But we do need power gamers in Guild Wars to fill our towns and teams especially as future expansions are released and the number of towns grows.

And exactly why do those towns need to be filled up with power gamers and not players that enjoy other things?

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I'd bet the level cap being only 20 is the number 1 reason most people give for not leaving other games to get into Guild Wars. Even most people that don't consider themselves power gamers will agree this level cap is too low.

It's also the no.1 reason why people stay in GuildWars and not leave for other games.

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In my experience the ideal number for a level cap should relate to the real-life maximum age of a human. I don't know if it's a subconscious thing, but there's just something very appealing about being in the 40-100 level range and feeling like you have wisdom and experience (I'm only 25 years old IRL by the way). Furthermore, I think 100 is the ideal level cap cause it's a nice round number, and the number gains a 3rd digit, an extra show of power.

so you would suggest that levelgaining takes place 4 times as fast, and the 'XXX is now level XX' messages fly around your ears in towns (and let it rain skillpoints which personally i have no problems with), or that GuildWars becomes a bigger grindfest?
Not starting to talk about leveldiscrimination. ("glf lvl 80+, joo lvl 60 scrubs go away").

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When my friends sold me on Guild Wars last year I remember asking them why the level cap was so low, and they told me the level cap would be raised by 10 or 20 every expansion pack.

You're friend informed you wrong, and definetely hasn't got his sources right.
ANet must have told over a hunderd times now that they would never raise the levelcap.

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I don't think that's something they read from any Anet source. It's just something that was expected. I think we shared this expection with many people and of course when expectations aren't met people are let down.

Clearly, those people never bothered to inform themselves on the ideas ANet had/ has for GuildWars, as the levelcap policy is as old as the game itself.

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Why was it an expectation though? First, there's the historical reasons. Simply raising the level cap by a little bit as a common form of bait for customers to buy expansions is something almost every MMORPG does. Look at WoW, DAoC, EQ, etc.... In this regard I'm glad Guild Wars expansions continue to surprise us by not giving us these cheap tactics and mandatory grinds. I'm confident that my accomplishments in Prophecies and Factions will never be watered down or made pointless by future additions. Second, there's the natural expectation of a level cap to be approximate to the maximum age of a human as I explained before.

You assumed wrongly obviously, because you and your friends didn't bother to check the information out on the game. To now try to change the original game philosophy to match your wrongfully build-up expectations is simply ridiculous.

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Of course there's other ways to advance a character other then just level as Anet has shown us with the Titles system. I'm very pleased with the introduction of titles especially the explorer and protector titles. I remember being called a "noob" many times for wanting to complete a bonus or explore an area of the map in Tyria, but now I have Protector and Explorer titles on both continents, and I have a way to show off my eliteness.

Ehr...okay? So you're 1337?
*hand a cookie*

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Although I know way too many people that don't pursue any titles. Maybe it's because you can only display 1 at a time. Maybe it's because they are so hard to max out.

wait, you are losing me here. you ask for more to display your leetness in the form of levelcap, but now talk about 'har to max out' titles?
Quite contradicting.

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Maybe it's because they don't increase your power for obtaining them.

one word: game-balance.

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It could be those reasons, but I think it's because titles are too complicated and people prefer a simple number level system.

Yeah. Titles. very complicated.
checkbox.... *click*. done.
Yup, that's way to complicated.

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Regardless the reasons, the fact is that far too many people don't appreciate titles as they are now.

start a petition and get your arguments straight before trying cheap tricks like this.

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I'll never be able to sell Guild Wars to some of my friends that play WoW with my elite Explorer title, or even if I had a rank 15 emote. That won't get their attention. Now if I said I were level 100 and showed them ultra-rare weapons and armor that would get their attention.

It's against EULA to sell your account.

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Maybe if I told them I was only level 79 and the max is 100, but it's so hard to get no one has ever reached it yet. I guess any change is better then telling friends I'm level 20, everyone is level 20, and they can get to level 20 in 5 hours.

And you say you aren't a powergamer?
Well, maybe you can brag your e-pride with a Zodiac Sundering Sword of Fortitude, a Celestial Shield and FoW armor on all your characters?

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With that being said, what is the best way to raise the level cap? It could be done an infinite number of ways. Many important questions need to be asked when designing for a level increase. Should being higher then level 20 make that character more powerful then a level 20, more versatile, or only as a show of accomplishment? Should the level cap increase be very complicated and tied in with new game features such as Titles, or should it be strictly experience point based?

it should not be raised. it will not be raised. game over.

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I have several different ideas on how to increase the level cap, but I'll just write 3 here. Without further ado are my ideas.

Title based level increase:
- For select titles you have you get 1 level while over level 20.
- For rank 3 Hero you get +1 level, for rank 6 Hero you get +1 level, etc...
- For rank 3 Gladiator you get +1 level, for rank 6 Gladiator you get +1 level, etc...
- A maxed Explorer title gets you +1 level.
- Each Protecter of ... title you obtain gets you +1 level.
- Each rank in the Skill Hunter title gets you +1 level.
- No level increase for drinking, gambling, or Survivor titles.
- No power increase not even a nominal one for being level 20+... it wouldn't be fair to people with no interest in PvP or some titles. The grind would feel painfully mandatory for many if a power increase were involved.

Experience/Skill based level increase:
- A more traditional approach to leveling. Would basically account for skill points and experience earned after level 20, and convert that to a level 20+ character.
- Would feel very natural to gain skills along with levels.
- The game would need a way for characters to change primary professions. It's useless to acquire all the necro skills on a warrior primary profession for example. Would need to expand storage drastically for a character to store multiple armor sets, weapons, etc...
- This system would allow a player to gain levels with greater flexibility then the title system. As long as a player is killing and gaining experience, they would be gaining levels.
- The system would mostly be to show a characters versatility through the availability of skills, but could also permit a small and infrequent increase in power without stepping on the toes of casual gamers too much.

Experience/Skill based level increase (chapter specific) :
- Similar to the change listed above, but with the changes solely inside a certain campaign or chapter.
- Every time a character enters a new campain his level is reset to 1 and/or he enters an alternate way of advancing his character, possibly levelling to greater then level 20 and even having different and greater powers. When he returns to Tyria or Cantha he level returns to 20.
- Maybe this certain campaign could be the "power gamers paradise" just like Factions is the "grind and PvP paradise" and Prophecies is the "explorers paradise". It could be a place where power gamers could truly feel like they're "pwning nubs".

It's hard to say which one of my ideas is my favorite. I truly like the Title system and would love to see levels based off that, but that still doesn't address the lack of appeal of this game to power gamers. Power gamers want an advantage not just recognition so I'm inclined to go with my second idea, and give them more recognition for versatility, and maybe even a small extra power boost over people with lower levels then them.

Edit: I would appreciate it if a mod would delete the flame posts in this thread. This isn't a petition or a whine thread, but a constructive suggestion. Please contribute something to the conversation, or don't post at all.

power gamers want an advantage not just recognition?
So you're basicly saying that the complete game balance should be put aside for Power Gamers?

Wow. That's the most retarded thing I've heard / read the past month.

Stockholm · Aug 08, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

If you want to impress your friends give them your XP as Lvl, that should solve that problem.

GLF mission +1mil xp only
thats my new group requirement everyone else is a "noob"
and if you play or have ever played WOW don't even bother to apply

/ notsigned (same as every raise lvl cap thread)

Addone_Abaddon · Aug 08, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

where people can see your level, why not have a thing where people can see how much skill points earned, if this is really to show how powerful you are.

Undivine · Aug 08, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Just because some of the moderators are on a little hiatus for the time being, that doesn't mean we don't check back now and then. There is no reason to start this flame war.

And yes, it's been suggested hundreds of times.

You are so closed it's not even funny. (Maybe a little funny.)